Comments on: Screenwriting Structure Part 18 Complications and Higher Stakes http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/ Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:52:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Jonny Atlas Writes » Blog Archive » High Concept vs. Quality Writing http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/comment-page-1/#comment-37409 Jonny Atlas Writes » Blog Archive » High Concept vs. Quality Writing Mon, 09 Mar 2009 05:36:47 +0000 http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/#comment-37409 [...] now knows you’re a shit writer. A one-hit-wonder who had a good concept and couldn’t execute it. You’ll be lucky to get another read. Assignment work is out of the [...] [...] now knows you’re a shit writer. A one-hit-wonder who had a good concept and couldn’t execute it. You’ll be lucky to get another read. Assignment work is out of the [...]

]]> By: Susan P. http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/comment-page-1/#comment-36129 Susan P. Tue, 19 Aug 2008 11:36:50 +0000 http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/#comment-36129 You've offered a neat package there of critical points James. Thank you. I admire that ability, as you describe, of having a great impact with a small amount of information or stimuli. I was thinking about this from an acting perspective on the weekend as I watched Jeremy Brett as Sherlock Holmes. His face and manner is [was] superb. Small movements of cheek and eyebrow and lips that are so tremendously engaging. You’ve offered a neat package there of critical points James. Thank you. I admire that ability, as you describe, of having a great impact with a small amount of information or stimuli. I was thinking about this from an acting perspective on the weekend as I watched Jeremy Brett as Sherlock Holmes. His face and manner is [was] superb. Small movements of cheek and eyebrow and lips that are so tremendously engaging.

]]> By: James http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/comment-page-1/#comment-36128 James Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:32:37 +0000 http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/#comment-36128 Susan -- Brad Bird is one of my favorite screenwriters at the moment. He's very good at action-packed scenes that escalate the plot as a whole, while delving out necessary exposition in a spoonful of sugar manner, and at the same time paying off genre expectation. Not only does he know how to craft a story, he knows how to give the audience what they want, and still present them with something they weren't expecting. The Incredibles is a great example. Susan –

Brad Bird is one of my favorite screenwriters at the moment.

He’s very good at action-packed scenes that escalate the plot as a whole, while delving out necessary exposition in a spoonful of sugar manner, and at the same time paying off genre expectation.

Not only does he know how to craft a story, he knows how to give the audience what they want, and still present them with something they weren’t expecting.

The Incredibles is a great example.

]]> By: James http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/comment-page-1/#comment-36127 James Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:26:25 +0000 http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/#comment-36127 Unk -- I actually agree with you. On all accounts. You ARE splitting hairs :p Haha. You're right. It is the conflict in every scene that needs to be there. I was using tension synonymously with conflict. I actually think you picked a good hair to split. Tension is more akin to suspense in a general sense. It's an off and on thing -- whereas conflict is present as long as a problem exists. I wasn't talking about tension, in the cheesy, "Look, a baby on a cliff! OMG!" maniuplative manner. I meant it in the -- each scene needs to have two opposing forces that create conflict. It's a good clarification to make -- as the comments have already turned to a debate between conflict vs tension, rather than what the thread was about -- rising tension throughout the script as a whole. Unk — I actually agree with you. On all accounts. You ARE splitting hairs :p Haha.

You’re right. It is the conflict in every scene that needs to be there. I was using tension synonymously with conflict.

I actually think you picked a good hair to split. Tension is more akin to suspense in a general sense. It’s an off and on thing — whereas conflict is present as long as a problem exists.

I wasn’t talking about tension, in the cheesy, “Look, a baby on a cliff! OMG!” maniuplative manner. I meant it in the — each scene needs to have two opposing forces that create conflict.

It’s a good clarification to make — as the comments have already turned to a debate between conflict vs tension, rather than what the thread was about — rising tension throughout the script as a whole.

]]> By: Clive ($1,000) http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/comment-page-1/#comment-36126 Clive ($1,000) Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:45:36 +0000 http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/#comment-36126 No problem, Holly, my pleasure... I've been using Unk's techniques for about four years now, so I've had time to absorb, put them into practice and adapt them for my own writing style... which is a little more art-house than Unk's (LOL) I know his stuff works because I produced a couple of features before finding his techniques and know how even minor structural flaws can effect the end product. One of the important things here, as Unk says in the comments, is not to apply the techniques literally. The truth is for every "rule" there are a raft of relevant exceptions... but where many people go wrong is in believing the exceptions invalidate the principles. They don't. They just prove that screenwriting is more than just technique. I only go back to the template when I'm giving notes on a friend's script, because it's the easiest way to identify flaws and give useful constructive notes. It's easy for a producer to say "it feels a bit slow," but essentially it's not that useful... however, if you can write "it's a bit slow in the first act because there is no inciting incident and you're still setting up the story on page 37" well that at least gives the writer something to work on. In terms of the actual writing, if you've done enough research of the subject matter and really, really understand your characters the rest just falls into place... in any situation there should only one be way your character can react, even if the decision is a difficult one (in fact your job is to make their decisions difficult)... the eventual decision can surprise the audience but only if by the end of the film the choice makes sense. Most screenplays suffer from one of three problems (or often all three) 1) lack of structure, so the story doesn't flow 2) lack of emotional intelligence, so the characters don't seem real and do things for no reason 3) a poorly defined central concept Any script that gets over those hurdles is automatically ahead of the pack. No problem, Holly, my pleasure… I’ve been using Unk’s techniques for about four years now, so I’ve had time to absorb, put them into practice and adapt them for my own writing style… which is a little more art-house than Unk’s (LOL)
I know his stuff works because I produced a couple of features before finding his techniques and know how even minor structural flaws can effect the end product.
One of the important things here, as Unk says in the comments, is not to apply the techniques literally.
The truth is for every “rule” there are a raft of relevant exceptions… but where many people go wrong is in believing the exceptions invalidate the principles. They don’t. They just prove that screenwriting is more than just technique.
I only go back to the template when I’m giving notes on a friend’s script, because it’s the easiest way to identify flaws and give useful constructive notes. It’s easy for a producer to say “it feels a bit slow,” but essentially it’s not that useful… however, if you can write “it’s a bit slow in the first act because there is no inciting incident and you’re still setting up the story on page 37″ well that at least gives the writer something to work on.
In terms of the actual writing, if you’ve done enough research of the subject matter and really, really understand your characters the rest just falls into place… in any situation there should only one be way your character can react, even if the decision is a difficult one (in fact your job is to make their decisions difficult)… the eventual decision can surprise the audience but only if by the end of the film the choice makes sense.
Most screenplays suffer from one of three problems (or often all three)
1) lack of structure, so the story doesn’t flow
2) lack of emotional intelligence, so the characters don’t seem real and do things for no reason
3) a poorly defined central concept

Any script that gets over those hurdles is automatically ahead of the pack.

]]> By: Holly http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/comment-page-1/#comment-36120 Holly Tue, 19 Aug 2008 01:53:05 +0000 http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/#comment-36120 I find myself continuously doing research and studying the craft as I try to write my first screenplay, and the more I read on this site, the more I realize I have found the right place to learn. Clive, thanks for always putting your two cents in, because although Unk's posts always challenge me to think, and give me so many "ah-ha!" moments that make things click, you (and several others!) are always right there alongside, reinforcing, and sometimes simplifying things to help me understand. Everyone's comments are always worth reading, even if they challenge my way of thinking, because when they challenge, it forces me to defend my position, which makes me think harder about my beliefs. Sometimes, I change my mind, other times I remind myself that everyone is entitled to their own opinion! But I haven't found anywhere else on the net with such a vast amount of knowledge, and such generosity to share it. So thanks, to Unk, Clive, and everyone. For making me, and everyone who tunes in, a better screenwriter. I find myself continuously doing research and studying the craft as I try to write my first screenplay, and the more I read on this site, the more I realize I have found the right place to learn. Clive, thanks for always putting your two cents in, because although Unk’s posts always challenge me to think, and give me so many “ah-ha!” moments that make things click, you (and several others!) are always right there alongside, reinforcing, and sometimes simplifying things to help me understand. Everyone’s comments are always worth reading, even if they challenge my way of thinking, because when they challenge, it forces me to defend my position, which makes me think harder about my beliefs. Sometimes, I change my mind, other times I remind myself that everyone is entitled to their own opinion! But I haven’t found anywhere else on the net with such a vast amount of knowledge, and such generosity to share it. So thanks, to Unk, Clive, and everyone. For making me, and everyone who tunes in, a better screenwriter.

]]> By: Clive ($1,000) http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/comment-page-1/#comment-36114 Clive ($1,000) Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:46:27 +0000 http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/#comment-36114 Very astute article, as ever The key sentence for me in this is "this shouldn't be difficult, if you've done your homework." For me both the conflict at a scene level and also the raising of the stakes are controlled by the work done on the protagonist's character development at the start of the process and also the way in which their wants and needs conflict with the wants and needs of other key characters. Where the two differ is that conflict comes out of the areas in which the protagonist's needs are at odds with other characters... but the raising of the stakes is often linked to the ways in which the protagonist is connected to other characters. So if conflict is born out of what obstacles are placed in the protagonist's path, then stakes relate to what they are afraid to lose in the process... which is why a raise in stakes is often presented as a dilemma... or in other words "choose what is most important to you?" Very astute article, as ever

The key sentence for me in this is “this shouldn’t be difficult, if you’ve done your homework.”

For me both the conflict at a scene level and also the raising of the stakes are controlled by the work done on the protagonist’s character development at the start of the process and also the way in which their wants and needs conflict with the wants and needs of other key characters.

Where the two differ is that conflict comes out of the areas in which the protagonist’s needs are at odds with other characters… but the raising of the stakes is often linked to the ways in which the protagonist is connected to other characters.

So if conflict is born out of what obstacles are placed in the protagonist’s path, then stakes relate to what they are afraid to lose in the process… which is why a raise in stakes is often presented as a dilemma… or in other words “choose what is most important to you?”

]]> By: Susan P. http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/comment-page-1/#comment-36105 Susan P. Mon, 18 Aug 2008 04:03:57 +0000 http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/#comment-36105 Ryan, You're right that asking questions is really vital. The trouble is, you need certain knowledge TO be able to ask the right questions. :) I got stuck on an outline recently. I think I got to number 8 or something and I could feel the frustration maxing. On Friday night I was sitting looking at something in the room and a new idea came to me. I've got that down and although I know at least one sequence is weak and the ending is not quite as strong as I would like it to be, I basically got it. And in getting this down reasonably well I now know what is amiss with my first one. Character arc. This last one I really knew what that was and that helped enormously. I also think not continually flogging an outline may be important too. Despite knowing this has flaws I am going to leave it and move to another that is ready to go up to the next level. I think we can get so close to our work that we no longer see it. It's a typical issue for emerging writers so you're not alone by a long stretch! Ryan,

You’re right that asking questions is really vital. The trouble is, you need certain knowledge TO be able to ask the right questions. :)

I got stuck on an outline recently. I think I got to number 8 or something and I could feel the frustration maxing. On Friday night I was sitting looking at something in the room and a new idea came to me. I’ve got that down and although I know at least one sequence is weak and the ending is not quite as strong as I would like it to be, I basically got it. And in getting this down reasonably well I now know what is amiss with my first one. Character arc. This last one I really knew what that was and that helped enormously.

I also think not continually flogging an outline may be important too. Despite knowing this has flaws I am going to leave it and move to another that is ready to go up to the next level. I think we can get so close to our work that we no longer see it. It’s a typical issue for emerging writers so you’re not alone by a long stretch!

]]> By: Ryan http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/comment-page-1/#comment-36104 Ryan Mon, 18 Aug 2008 02:28:53 +0000 http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/#comment-36104 Susan, I agree on your last paragraph. Ever since I've been doing this(writing scripts), I've been looking into the wrong things and asking ALL the wrong questions. Stuff that is irrelevant to the level/stage of writing that I am at. Unk knows exactly what I mean. I just had a discussion that he's probably embarrassed that he's even associated with me. LOL I'm just getting ahead of myself. I think it's the impatientness kicking in cause I'm no where close to where I freakin' wanna be. Susan,
I agree on your last paragraph.

Ever since I’ve been doing this(writing scripts), I’ve been looking into the wrong things and asking ALL the wrong questions. Stuff that is irrelevant to the level/stage of writing that I am at.

Unk knows exactly what I mean. I just had a discussion that he’s probably embarrassed that he’s even associated with me. LOL

I’m just getting ahead of myself. I think it’s the impatientness kicking in cause I’m no where close to where I freakin’ wanna be.

]]> By: Susan P. http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/comment-page-1/#comment-36077 Susan P. Fri, 15 Aug 2008 05:57:18 +0000 http://www.unknownscreenwriter.com/screenwriting-structure-part-18-complications-and-higher-stakes/screenwriting/structure/2008/08/13/#comment-36077 Try again Hi Ryan, Action or Comedy? The gladiator is in the circus and the lion is released roaring. The gladiator, has a wide eyed, innocent look of..ooooopsss. The lion runs towards him and the gladiator begins to run around the circus.."maximus, maximus, let down your hair!" The lion catches him and rips off his garment. The gladiator squeaks.."oh, you ARE awful"! Now that is almost pure Carry On movie treatment. That somewhat camp response and actions never really hurting but causing the potential for an amusing response. In comedy I think of an audience thinking "oh heck" or.."awwwwwwwwwww" rather than the "Oh my fucking god" that they will experience via an action film. Tension in comedy is pretty light as the stakes are not that high. The gal might be turning her back on the guy but the audience kinda thinks she really IS interested. (The protesteth too much thing). Try again

Hi Ryan,

Action or Comedy?

The gladiator is in the circus and the lion is released roaring. The gladiator, has a wide eyed, innocent look of..ooooopsss. The lion runs towards him and the gladiator begins to run around the circus..”maximus, maximus, let down your hair!” The lion catches him and rips off his garment. The gladiator squeaks..”oh, you ARE awful”!

Now that is almost pure Carry On movie treatment. That somewhat camp response and actions never really hurting but causing the potential for an amusing response.

In comedy I think of an audience thinking “oh heck” or..”awwwwwwwwwww” rather than the “Oh my fucking god” that they will experience via an action film.

Tension in comedy is pretty light as the stakes are not that high. The gal might be turning her back on the guy but the audience kinda thinks she really IS interested. (The protesteth too much thing).

]]>