Screenwriters talk about the craft
Posted on January 24, 2008
Filed Under Uncategorized
Ah… Really busy this week. Like “crazy busy.” I just want to thank everyone for the comments in the previous post. Some really outstanding discussion there and GOD, I love that! That — to me — is really what helps make a screenwriting blog.
Found a great little online thesaurus recently — it’s in my sidebar but I thought I’d share it with you today:
Give it a shot…
Also found some interesting videos… Enjoy. Be back with another screenwriting structure post in a few days.
Unk
Screenwriter, Billy Ray — Tricks of the trade:
Screenwriter, Scott Rosenberg — Tricks of the trade:
Screenwriter - Director - Producer, Jim Sheridan Part 1
Screenwriter - Director - Producer, Jim Sheridan Part 2
William Goldman Word Into Image Part 1
William Goldman Word Into Image Part 2
William Goldman Word Into Image Part 3
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22 Responses to “Screenwriters talk about the craft”
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First!
Now that’s funny… LOL.
Unk
*NOTE: 2nd!
I was actually thinking before I came in here, “Man, I wonder if Josh is gonna be the first commenter?” So funny. And I thought about how long is comment could be since your post was mostly clips. Then I thought something was wrong with my monitor when I only saw one word. LOL.
Anwyways, thanks for the video links, very informative, and always good to hear it from the horses mouths.
Scottie screenwriter
Hey, Unk! How about posting a list of (ten?) movies that every aspiring screenwriter can learn something from? We’ve all seen McKee’s “Chinatown” and “Casablanca”. What would be the films you’d recommend we study?
Scott Rosenberg said, “What’s in the parenthesis is a lot more important than the dialog”.
He had writers say “I’m really glad you’re home,” and then say it to mean, “I love you, I hate you, I’m jonesin’”.
I’m not sure if he’s talking about literally what’s in the parenthesis or is referring to action. If he’s referring to the latter - totally agree. I’d kill the wryly, but that’s how I roll.
Good dialog usually has an elastic quality. One of the ways that I milk dialog is to take a looksie at the character’s objective within the scene.
Let’s say protag’s girlfriend sits on the couch/reads a book. Let’s say protag’s objective is, TO (love that word, to – most helpful word award) RETRIEVE THE PANTIES THAT HAVE BEEN STUFFED INTO THE COUCH. I have all I need to start working out the dialog/action.
Actors don’t make lists of, say this line happy, say this line sad face, say this line like whoa man! Their lists would be longer than the script. What they do, do is LIVE IN THE MOMENT. So they take a looksie at their objective and they go after it; pursue the crap out of it.
Character is what it does in pursuit of an objective. The path they choose to take IS action. So, dialog is a tool of pursuit. Dialog IS action.
TO RETRIEVE THE PANTIES
Protag could do a number of things to achieve this end. He (assuming it’s a he) could seduce, plea, patronize, scrutinize, repulse, enrage, etc. Now, notice that he’s not going to seduce himself. He’s not going to go after something within himself ie emotions like angry happy sad etc. Emotions are byproducts/a reaction to the pursuit. When you’re five and you want an ice cream, and you’re told no, you cry. You don’t cry to get what you want (unless you were a master of manipulation and were using the tears as a tool). I’m talking about a legitimate cry. You cry because you want. How hard you cry is dependent upon HOW BAD you want what you’re after (objective).
So putting a wryly in there isn’t nearly as effective as action.
Protag enters, rubs his girlfriends foot…
Protag: You have the worst fuckin’ taste in books
Girlfriend: More rub. Less talk.
Protag sucks on girlfriends toes (let’s pretend she likes that junk). Girlfriend gets all distracted, drops the book blah blah blah.
But,
Protag stops – licks lips – something’s wrong.
Girlfriend: (lowers book) Don’t stop. You stopped. Why stop?
(maybe we need a beat here for comedic whateverness)
Protag: You need to take a bath.
Girlfriend is disgusted by the boyfriend’s implication, drops the book and either stomps upstairs to read in solitude or is totally humored by the idea that her feet are dirty and is willing to abandon the book and head UPSTAIRS for some quality time with the boyfriend, but regardless, protag will INSIST that she first take a bath.
Why?
To retrieve the panties stuffed in the couch.
Of course, if were a smarty pants writer you’d write the scene fifty times trying out different pursuits, playing on the pacing, as called by what the scene demands, but I think I made my point.
*
You know, this cutting my replies down by 75% is not going well. Sorry Unk.
Hey, I know. Just stop posting provocative material. You see, I just can’t help myself.
Thanks for the clips, Unk.
Joshua – you is funny
Sincerely,
#5
And, Unk.
WHO DOES #2 WORK FOR?
Ryan,
Nice post. I always give respect to a guy who sucks the toes after a long day in the boots… perv. LOL.
As per Unk’s post.
I loved the videos with William Goldman. He says how dialogue is so unimportant. I love this! Because I read so many scripts from writers, just like Billy Ray said, where the dialogue is so on the nose and one dimensional. I always suggest to writers to write the scene with no dialogue at all and see if they can get the same thing to happen. Nothing is worse than a scene that is pure talky, unless it’s a comedy that exists to spout off funny and colorful dialogue (see Knocked Up).
I also appreciated how Goldman said that STRUCTURE is what a screenplay is. To create the spine and stick to it, make everything attach to it. Perfect analogy. Because that way you will make sure every scene has a reason for being there and connects itself to the big picture, and you can end up cutting the fluff that is in between, even if it’s good fluff, and save it for another screenplay instead.
Another thing he pointed out was how each scene has to have a purpose. It doesn’t really matter what words are chosen or what actions happen, as long as you have a purpose, like how he pointed to the scene with the guard at the bank, to show how times are harder than they used to be. The man is a genius.
I also loved how Rosenburg revealed how he wrote 10 screenplays before he sold one. It doesn’t make me feel so bad, LOL.
Thanks for the links Unk, appreciate it.
Scottie screenwriter
Great post!
“I always give respect to a guy who sucks the toes after a long day in the boots… perv.”
It’s probably a Tarantino homage :P
“I also loved how Rosenburg revealed how he wrote 10 screenplays before he sold one. It doesn’t make me feel so bad, LOL.”
I’ve always wondered about that, myself. Because I have a very different modus operandi. For example, there’s a short story I wrote in 2002 or 2003 that I’ve rewritten from scratch at least once every year. Twice it’s been a 30-page screenplay. Many more times it’s been a short story. The only things that haven’t changed much about the whole thing are the protagonist, his need, and the twist. (Though the twist has been refined a bit.)
Rewriting it every now and then is a good way to see what I’ve learned over time.
So, um. Is there something inherently better about writing ten different screenplays before you sell one or would it make more sense to write less and keep rewriting them until they’re all shiny and sparkling?
Elver, you wrote:
“So, um. Is there something inherently better about writing ten different screenplays before you sell one or would it make more sense to write less and keep rewriting them until they’re all shiny and sparkling?”
My opinion is this… I have written 11 screenplay since I started writing about ten years ago. Every single one of them has been rewritten a few times, some just tweaked, some page one rewrites. The first 8 I would have to say are shit. But writing that shit and evolving and realizing my own style and voice and niche of genre would not have happened if I hadn’t written them. Each scrupt you write adds confidence and hones your skills and I guarantee it will show on the page, if you challenge yourself each time.
As for rewriting the same scripts… I think that you don’t want to keep rewriting the same stuff over and over. You need to fuel the fire with new ideas and genres and ways of doing things. There has to be new ideas that come up every day, and they need to be high concept and you need to put them into script form and go for it. Start new pages. I always do this little exercise on writing new page one’s, original ones, try to get some kind of emotional reaction out of them. I have dozens of them, haven’t used most yet, but it will motivate you to start new scripts, and it may even trigger a new idea that you keep on going to page two. It’s a good exercise and it tests your abilities.
Just my thoughts on it, hope it helps even a little.
Scottie screenwriter.
Elver,
Good question… I do “kind of” keep a running list of all the movies I’ve studied over the years… Here you go:
In no particular order:
TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD
RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK
DIRTY HARRY
SHANE
THE SEARCHERS
BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID
COOL HAND LUKE
TRUE GRIT
THE GREAT ESCAPE
MANHUNTER
IT’S A WONDERFUL LIFE
JAWS
MARATHON MAN
REAR WINDOW
THE TERMINATOR
DELIVERANCE
THE MALTESE FALCON
THE TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE
THE FUGITIVE
DIE HARD
PULP FICTION
BODY HEAT
ROCKY
BREAKING AWAY
THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION
BLOOD SIMPLE
WAIT UNTIL DARK
THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN
FULL METAL JACKET
12 ANGRY MEN
THE HITCHER
THE MAN WHO SHOT LIBERTY VALANCE
THE OUTLAW JOSEY WALES
THE GUNS OF NAVARONE
POLTERGEIST
THE LAST PICTURE SHOW
THE DIRTY DOZEN
DINER
FARGO
FORREST GUMP
GROUNDHOG DAY
HEATHERS
JERRY MAGUIRE
RAISING ARIZONA
RISKY BUSINESS
FIELD OF DREAMS
GOODFELLAS
TEACHER’S PET
STALAG 17
THE COURT JESTER
THE OX-BOW INCIDENT
SILVERADO
THE OUT-OF-TOWNERS
HEAT
THE GODFATHER
THE GODFATHER PART II
RESERVOIR DOGS
THE USUAL SUSPECTS
ALTERED STATES
LITTLE BIG MAN
LONESTAR
ALIEN
ALIENS
UNFORGIVEN
WILL PENNY
THE LAST OF THE MOHICANS
BRAVEHEART
APOCALYPSE NOW
THE VERDICT
THE PELICAN BRIEF
PRESUMED INNOCENT
IN COLD BLOOD
JAGGED EDGE
A FEW GOOD MEN
TO CATCH A THIEF
SE7EN
MEMENTO
NORTH BY NORTHWEST
DIAL M FOR MURDER
BLOW OUT
THE BIG LEBOWSKI
THE HUSTLER
STARMAN
THE GRADUATE
DANCES WITH WOLVES
JEREMIAH JOHNSON
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER
THE STING
THE REF
Top 10 films? Hmmm. Gotta tell ya, these constantly change for me — at least at the tail end of the list. Sometimes I’ll watch one of these movies and something completely NEW pops up that I’ve never seen before.
Yeah, I’m a pretty boring guy… I just keep watching these films over and over and over again… I do add to the list and I know for sure there’s some missing. I even have these films playing in the background as I fall asleep. LOL.
Top 10?
THE GREAT ESCAPE
NORTH BY NORTHWEST
THE TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE
COOL HAND LUKE
THE DIRTY DOZEN
THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN
DIRTY HARRY
THE USUAL SUSPECTS
TRUE GRIT
MARATHON MAN
Honorable mention: MANHUNTER
Probably a weird list to most of you out there… This list is not to say that I learned the most from these movies… These are simply my favorite films and I like to think that I know what makes them tick.
From ALL the above films and scripts, I continue to have those “Aha!” moments every time I reread the script or watch the film.
These are the films I can easily get into arguments about… LOL.
Civilized arguments of course… As long as you don’t spit on me. You really wouldn’t want to do that. LOL.
Ryan R.,
Great video wasn’t it? All of them are. I have links to probably some of the best videos on the net. I’ll try to share them as I get the chance… Took me a lot of hours to find the ones worth a shit.
Who does #2 work for? Can’t you guess?
Scott,
I happen to be of the same mindset as Goldman. I’ll take structure over dialogue any day.
MM,
How in the hell do you have time to watch the videos? I know I only sleep a few days of the week. You must never sleep!
Elver,
You said, “So, um. Is there something inherently better about writing ten different screenplays before you sell one or would it make more sense to write less and keep rewriting them until they’re all shiny and sparkling?”
Which is an outstanding question by the way.
I don’t really think there’s much difference. Go with your GUT.
It depends on how much you believe in your story. If you feel that a particular story needs to be told and YOU are the person to tell that story — make it sparkle and shine.
You CAN rewrite the same story with completely different ideas.
Sometimes, just doing that will make a story work when it didn’t before.
Scott,
I think you’re right if that’s what it takes to KEEP WRITING. That’s most important of all.
Many writers start out on a new script — new idea — finish it — rewrite it — lose the steam.
In that case, definitely write something else but always be aware of new ideas that you MIGHT be able to recapture the steam on an old story.
Good stuff… Thanks everyone.
Unk
Thanks for the lists, Unk!
That’s a big ass list there, Unk!!!
It’s a good thing I’m not a screenwriter but one who is learning, cause I haven’t seen a third of those movies on that list. I’m in big trouble…. Lol
Looks like I gots a lot of work to do, huh???
Ever since I’ve been reading scripts, I find myself reading a lot of William Goldmans work. I enjoy reading his stuff. He keeps it interesting for me to continue reading his shiz. I like his style, and it reminded me of the way Unk wrote his on “The day I met the Unknown screenwriter” back on Dec. 9th.
Here’s a question not just for Unk, but I would really like your opinion Unk.
Who are the best screenwriters there ever were/are? I’m curious who you think is brilliant and continues to be brilliant with each and every script that he/she puts out???
Ryan,
Here’s my list… Subject to change.
Ernest Lehman
Horton Foote
William Goldman
Paul Schrader
Billy Wilder
Cameron Crowe
Frank Darabont
David Peoples
Joel Coen & Ethan Coen
Christopher McQuarrie
Unk
Thanks for the videos Unk. I’m sure that I’m like most here and suck this kind of stuff up quickly.
Just FYI, Netflix has all “The Dialogue” DVDs. I’ve queued every damned one. :)
That Dialogue series seems very intriguing now…and I don’t have netflix nor 300 dollars to dish out on the DVD’s
*hopes that Chris feels sorry*
Great frackin’ list, Unk . . . and you bet, I’ve seen every one more than once, except for TEACHER’S PET, which I’m now gonna have to check out.
And GREAT ESCAPE is a classic, classic film. I was shocked recently when, while researching something else, to find that James Clavell was one of the writers. But of course that makes sense.
I’m glad to see LITTLE BIG MAN on there, that’s one I was gonna put on my unheralded thing as some point. I might at THE BIG COUNTRY on there, which I enjoy because Peck beats the piss outa Heston, which is a joy. And Ives kicks ass.
And I have to say, I have a weird thing about LAST OF THE MOHICANS, I’ve seen it three or four hundred times, I keep finding stuff in it that I missed, and the attack by the Hurons upon the marching soldiers and refugees is, to my eye, one of the finest things ever shot . . . and realistic to the times, too.
It’s a weird film in a way, with its ending (I remember seeing it a theatre and being shocked that it’s actually over) but it’s a powerful piece of work that I love.
But, I ask . . . but . . . no SEVEN SAMURAI?
One of my faves, and I also love THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN a whole bunch, which I see is on the list. . . I also enjoy SEX, LIES AND VIDEOTAPE, which has a lot going on it it and doesn’t ever tire me, even though there’s little sex, heh-heh, and a lot of lies and videotape.
And HIGH FIDELITY and GROSS POINT BLANK are two movies I can watch over and over (unedited, not the castrated versions on cable) and still really enjoy. HIGH FIDELITY, in particular, is one great fucking adaptation.
SIXTEEN CANDLES always works, always.
And a film I’m going to feature next week on my Unheralded Classic Cool thing is FRESH . . . more on that later.
There’s more, these kind of conversations about stuff like this is quicksand for me, almost as dangerous as bringing up WE SEE, heh-heh.
“SIXTEEN CANDLES always works, always.”
My film debut! Watch the kid about 10 rows back on the bride’s side during the wedding scene… outstanding performance.
Those, obviously, are great films UNK listed. I’d like to add Lawrence of Arabia. Any script that can making crossing the desert seem exciting is worth studying.
For great dialogue I’ll put my money on ‘The Lion in Winter’.
It would also be in my Top Ten Movies.
Okay guys, you need to feel sorry for me.
Today, where I live, it is -52 degrees celcius. Yeah, that’s right, that is a minus sign. pretty near froze my balls off. Friggin’ ridiculous.
But on the other hand you may be jealous, because the cold outside made me stay inside and I got 13 total hours of writing done over the last 36 hours.
Woohoo!
Scottie screenwriter
Wow, more great stuff. In the vein of Sixteen Candles, let’s not forget the BRILLIANT “Less Than Zero” one of Downey’s finest roles.
Also, The Searchers was a great film. Aww, what the hell.
Ordinary People
The Paper
Dead Poet’s Society
The Hitcher (80s)
St. Elmo’s Fire
Mr. Roberts - SUPER GREAT
The Green Berets
Rooster Cogburn
The Cowboys
Maybe I am too much of a fan of HOLLYWOOD movies… But what about DAVID KOEPP? And AKIVA GOLDSMAN? Why are they not popping up on a list?
Koepp is one of my favorites and I think he is a master of current work. Of course some of his stuff is pure fluff and popcorn, but Panic Room and Stir of Echoes were excellent scripts and films, and he did an amazing job adapting the Carlito’s Way novels into what I view as a masterpiece of character transformation and inner conflict.
And Akiva… I know he is amazing at adaptations and they are not spec’s but Beautiful Mind and Cinderella Man speak for themselves when it comes to heroes you just have to root for from FADE IN. And I think it is time we forgive him for Batman & Robin.
Anyone agree or disagree?
Scottie sreenwriter
I think the reason we don’t see Akiva on more lists like this is because his scripts tend to be a bit, er, “structurally lopsided”, and lack logic.