Read between the lines…

8 Responses to “Read between the lines…”

1. Joshua James on September 28th, 2006 5:19 pm

   Actually, though, I have a question, a serious question for you.

   I agree that screenwriters (all writers, actually) should never stop studying their craft. I really agree with that.

   I wonder, though, when you said (and I’m paraphrasing) that the idea of the movie is what’s important - what’s it about (the logline, in other words), that’s the most important thing. I’ve heard that many other times (two adverbs also says this, that the logline is the most important thing).

   To me, though, by saying that, that lowers the importance of the execution (the craft of writing the movie) to where it almost doesn’t matter at all in making the movie.

   Are there not simple stories with what could be generously described as unoriginal loglines that turned out to be great movies because of great writing (great craft) - I mean, ANIMAL HOUSE is basically about a bad frat vs a good frat (and an idea that has been used again and again, for better or worse results).

   Not to say that the idea isn’t important, it is, but I think a great writer could take a normal idea and make it great, whereas a regular writer can take a great idea and make it, well, make it into My Super Ex-Girlfriend (though that might not be the writer’s fault, could be the studio, but you get the gist).

   I think the idea matters, but I think the execution of the idea matters more. What do you think?

   I would also add that I’ve been told that there are basically only 14 types scripts that are ever made. So looking for a completely new idea wouldn’t guarantee it would be made, at least by a studio. What are your thoughts? (usually someone mentions C. Kaufmann at this point, but if reports are correct, there was a lot of resistance to BJM, was there not?).

   Long comment, I for that I apologize, but it’s something I’ve been wondering about. I’ve noticed that a lot of radical movies usually started in another medium (novels, comics, etc) but radical specs, I don’t know. Seems there’s a lot a resistance to something that hasn’t been ever done before (Craig Brewer told me Hustle & Flow was turned down by studios three times, because it the type of movie it was didn’t have a track record, and eventually John Singleton had to fund the film himself) because of the tracking numbers.

   Okay. I’m talked out. Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

2. Unknown Screenwriter on September 28th, 2006 7:37 pm

   Josh,

   I hate to be the one to tell you this… A well-written screenplay doesn’t necessarily mean a GOOD STORY.

   I’ve read well-written screenplays that really had no story in them i.e., nothing happens to the Protagonist, zero obstacles, etc.

   THE IDEA IS TO HAVE BOTH.

   A high concept for a movie can be rewritten by somebody that knows how to craft a well-written screenplay.

   On the other hand…

   A dull, boring concept for a movie isn’t something that anyone wants to bother with no matter how well it’s written.

   See the difference?

   What the writer who KNOWS HOW TO WRITE but doesn’t come up with high concepts has to do is either:

   1) Make the movie on their own and HOPE that there’s an audience for his well-written but fairly boring story.

   2) Find the HIGH CONCEPT within the story and capitalize on it.

   Please make note that when I say, high concept, I don’t mean big budget. I don’t mean stars. I’m talking about a high concept where STORY is KING. Show me a high concept and I will show you quite a few people in the industry that want to hitch a ride.

   What you say is true…

   There are simple stories with unoriginal loglines but there are even more simple stories with unoriginal loglines and no real concept worth making a movie about.

   Remember…

   EXECUTION is NOT simply turning out a well-written screenplay. Execution is combining ALL the elements of good storytelling and finding the concept (what I like to call HIGH CONCEPT) that makes ME go buy a ticket and watch the movie.

   So yeah… I think EXECUTION does matter MORE within the above context.

   What I’m saying is that PART of the CRAFT IS IN FACT coming up with a great STORY.

   Unk

3. Joshua James on September 28th, 2006 8:19 pm

   I like good ideas, too, so I hear what you’re saying - I write other things (plays, fiction, etc) in addition to screenplays and concept, to me, simply means the idea behind the story. But story is king, and I don’t mind seeing a simple story as long as it’s surprising. I didn’t find super ex-girlfriend surprising.

   It seems that the emphasis on high concept is handy in Hollywood, because that way anyone can have an idea for one. The writing is the work.

   I dunno. What do you think about the lack of market for truly original ideas? (yep, I have ‘em, but don’t worry, I ain’t gonna pitch ya) I hear all the time about original stuff not having a market for it -

   Hmm, maybe I’m just fretting too much. Forgive me if so. I do think the ideas behind making a movie is important.

   American Beauty had a great idea behind it, but I don’t know that it would have been described as a high concept, it was almost an independent film, wasn’t it? - maybe it’s simply that folks have a different view of what concept means.

   I see a lot of television shows who take something simple and write the hell out of it (ie THE WIRE, LOST, etc) -

   I’m ranting dude, it’s late here in New York, forgive me. Thanks for the posts -

4. Mystery Man on September 28th, 2006 8:49 pm

   I’m happy to report that inspired by me and Unk, Shares Dream World – The Craft of Screenwriting has been created and they will be studying Inciting Incidents.

   Let the revolution begin!

   (Okay, you two go back to debating now.)

   -MM

5. Unknown Screenwriter on September 29th, 2006 12:38 am

   Josh,

   I think we’re actually on pretty much the same track here…

   You say yourself that you don’t mind a simple story as long as it’s surprising.

   Thank you.

   Simple stories are often the best kinds of stories because indeed, they are simple.

   For instance, I just watched AN UNFINISHED LIFE with Robert Redford. A simple story to be sure but oh so RICH with STORY.

   Now one might not think there’s a high concept within that story but I would definitely argue that point however, it’s just a slice of life that a lot of us aren’t familiar with and gives us a chance to peek at that slice while still hitting on concepts that we are all too familiar with i.e., death, relatives, abuse, etc.

   Did it make money?

   Nope… But it’s a pretty damn good movie.

   But it’s a fairly original piece of work which is one big reason it got made in the first place.

   High concepts are very handy… Once again, we agree and yes, anyone can come up with one and yes, someone still has to write it and yes, WRITING IS THE REAL WORK.

   So far so good.

   Original ideas? No room?

   On one hand, I agree that there are a lot of studios out there are afraid of stuff like BJM. Too risky. They would rather go with something tried and true like THE DUKES OF HAZZARD. LOL.

   Fuck’em.

   Does that mean you shouldn’t write something original?

   ABSOLUTELY NOT. I definitely think there is a market for truly original ideas but having said that, you still need the EXECUTION.

   I don’t think you’re fretting too much at all… These seem like actual concerns. That’s good. Get these concerns dealt with and resolved before deciding this is something you want to do.

   AMERICAN BEAUTY is definitely a high concept movie. Kevin Spacy’s character, Lester Burnham undergoes an internal struggle — a mid-life crisis. This is an event that MILLIONS of men have gone through. This is an event that MILLIONS of women have witnessed their “signifcant other” go through. We might have scraped the surface of this phenomenon in other films but this one deals with it at a gut level and from a perspective that most of us can empathize with EVEN if it’s never happened to us.

   Having said that, I’m sure it wasn’t an easy idea to sell because it was so original and different.

   When THAT happens, it still really comes down to execution. Sometimes, a story like AMERICAN BEAUTY can’t be pitched in such a way as to make people beg for the screenplay.

   If you have a concept like this, then execution is everything because it’s that execution that’s going to sell your screenplay.

   Which brings me right back to high concept… LOL. I think there’s probably a high concept in ANY STORY if you just dig deep enough. Even the worm farm debutante can be high concept if you play with it long enough.

   So I don’t think we disagree as much as you might think… We just have different ideas of what high concept is.

   Finally…

   WRITING IS DEFINITELY THE REAL WORK. This, we absolutely agree on.

   Even so… Given the opportunity, I would rather find the high concept in a story and write that story with that high concept in mind RATHER than simply writing a boring story really really well.

   Don’t worry about the RANT… That’s what this is all about… Your rants are ALWAYS WELCOME.

   Unk

6. Joshua James on September 29th, 2006 5:16 am

   Thanks Unk,

   I really appreciate your words - quite frankly, I love writing stories in many formats, and though I’ve been fortunate enough to have written a few screenplays that got attention (and been optioned, blah blah blah) - I get frustrated, as we all do, with the idea that the logline is more important than the actual script itself.

   Having a great logline might be a great way to sell a script idea, but it in no way ensures that that script is a good script or even a good movie.

   It all comes down to the writing in the end, I really believe that, and so many times I’ve met with some D person (here in nyc) who loves my work but instead of talking to me about what I do, it often turns into a meeting about the great idea they had while sitting on the toilet and would I be interested in developing it with them (independently, of course, and for free, of course).

   And it may be an interesting idea, but I have to ask myself, why would I want to write this?

   I’m lucky that I write other things that get my rocks off, but it makes me wonder sometimes. If only the folks who hire us knew that a simple, good story is what most people watch movies for. Um, Little Miss Sunshine - simple story, disfunctional family road trip. Very funny and, in its storytelling, very original. Not a high concept, but a high execution and it paid off in theatre’s, whether one likes the film or not.

   I just wish more of the folks producing this stuff could see that.

   I should preface by saying, I’m not at your level of the business as of yet and I’m sure the d-folk I meet aren’t at the level of the d-folk you meet, especially since I’m on the opposite coast, but you get the gist.

   Really good writers write really good stories regardless of the concept because that’s what really good writers do (have you ever read C. Kaufmann’s original television pilot? It’s available online, written before he hit big and even though it follows the predictable pattern of a sitcom, it’s amazingly original within its format). Check it out.

   Stephen King’s Shawshank was a pretty standard concept, too, and one of my favorite films regardless. If anything, I think I’m worn out by all the films that are all concept and nothing else. I really love movies, but I think a lot of the writing revolution is happening on television, especially on cable, where writers are often allowed to make bold choices that are hard to put into a single logline concept (I’m thinking Lost, but I could think of others, like Entourage, etc) - the way for a cool revolution would be to give us freedom. Ahh. anyway, Shoot, we could both go on and on. I’d better stop now.

   Anyway, thanks for the rant. This is fast become one of my new fave blogs.

7. Unknown Screenwriter on September 29th, 2006 6:06 am

   Josh,

   It sounds like you might be a little caught up in the idea that you can’t be original and still have a high concept because of all the GARBAGE that’s being made that also reeks of high concept.

   To be sure… That garbage started from a high concept idea but was poorly executed.

   LITTLE MISS SUNSHINE is most definitely high concept in my opinion… All I have to say is:

   DYSFUNCTIONAL FAMILY ON A ROAD TRIP

   And doesn’t something get immediately conjured up in your mind’s eye?

   What happens when I add the story elements to the logine?

   1) A failing wannabe Tony Robbins Dad.
   2) A heroin addicted Grandfather that uses profanity.
   3) A gay brother-in-law who’s recent suicide attempt failed.
   4) The bring-home-the-bacon Mom who’s just about had it.
   5) The beauty pageant fanatic daughter.
   6) The old Volkswagen Bus with the horn from hell that has to be push-started and then everyone has to chase it to get a ride.

   If I were to compile all the above elements into a concise logline, I’m almost positive I would see the high concept there.

   At the same time, I would see a film that would be character driven and could probably be done on a low budget.

   In other words… A clear WINNER. It put my ass in the theater seat. LOL.

   The screenwriter took would could have been an otherwise simple boring story and added elements so that it becomes totally STORY DRIVEN.

   Nobody went to see that movie because of the actors… They went because the STORY is the star.

   Well executed. High concept. It’s all there.

   The good news is that Hollywood does sit up and take notice when films like this strike a collective chord with the people that normally won’t go to the theater because of all the crap.

   The problem?

   Watch out for all the poorly executed copycats being written right now. LOL.

   Stay original.

   Unk

8. Joshua James on September 29th, 2006 7:23 am

   Okay, thanks man.

   You do see my point that many folks in the “bidness” wouldn’t call LMS or Napoleon Dynamite a high concept, though you and I agree that both are in our minds (and in a way, LMS has the same “concept” as Robin Williams’s RV, which got a bigger budget and bigger release) and it’s with those unimagitive minds where my sometime frustration has its seed.

   But you bet, I’ll stay original (and hell, even within certain predictable genres a writer can find original expression - I’m a big kung fu movie fan, for example) - and thanks again.

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