Let Tarantino do Tarantino… Please!
Posted on January 29, 2007
Filed Under Uncategorized
I can’t help it… Nobody does an impression of Quentin Tarantino better than Tarantino himself. Many have tried… Many have failed. To me, the director that USED to come closest to beating Tarantino at his own game was Guy Ritchie. At least Guy threw enough of his own soul up there to make it a little different… That is until Madonna came into the mix.
But yeah, I’m talkin’ about SMOKIN’ ACES. This post seems to go along with my recent posts about CHARACTER since I think both the script and the resulting film missed the boat in this area.
I remember Joe Carnahan talking about a movie set in Tahoe many many years ago… And, when he talked about it, his eyes lit up like a Christmas tree and his machine gun explanation sucked you right in to the point where you were sayin’ “I can’t wait to see that movie!”
Which is WHY, on Friday night, I went to see it.
Why… After reading the script, would I go see SMOKIN’ ACES? Because I STILL want movies to be special!
And just like MILLIONS of would be movie-goers, I plunked down my $10 on Friday, hoping that the machine gun explanation would somehow outperform the script.
And it did…
Just not enough.
I guess what really disappointed me the most was Joe Carnahan going back to his BLOOD, GUTS, BULLETS & OCTANE roots… Yeah, that’s right. BLOOD, GUTS, BULLETS & OCTANE is a movie probably most, if not all of you have never seen before… It was Joe’s first flick. The flick that got him out of Sacramento, California… The flick that all his friends helped him on… A little 16mm beauty that introduced Smokin’ Joe Carnahan to the world.
SMOKIN’ ACES is in fact, BLOOD, GUTS, BULLETS & OCTANE on steroids… Pretty much the same movie but on a larger budget and scale… Don’t get me wrong… I loved BGB&O. It was a super-impressive 16mm Indie film made for something like $7500. The story was pretty damn good too with a nice twist at the end. It’s easy to see why BGB&O launched Joe’s career. Hell, I even bought the DVD.
Unfortunately, SA does almost the EXACT same thing here… Larger scale but to ME, almost the same movie. That bothers me because Joe can write… When it comes to dialogue, he’s got a very talented ear and zooms right along with some great back and forth dialogue… In some cases, BETTER than QT. His recent interviews attempt to dispel the idea that he has been influenced by Tarantino in any way but I can’t help feeling that there definitely IS some of QT’s influence… Much more so than Mamet or the Coen Brothers… Come on Joe, if you don’t want the comparisons, you gotta make a slightly different flick. In other words, there’s just no signature… No one element that you can tap into and say to yourself, “Smokin’ Joe did that.”
Not that anyone gives a shit and I won’t even give a shit after I write this… But I just feel LET DOWN. Joe is one of the guys that is supposed to get us back to THAT PLACE… That place where movies are special again. The worst part about it? It could have been done with just a little better screenwriting here and there. Unfortunately, the huge action sequences just didn’t put me BACK INTO the story. Sure they were visual. Sure they had comic effect but how much is enough? Had I not been taken out of the story, no problem…
As for being taken out of the story… It didn’t take long… And, while I hope not to SPOIL it for anyone, here’s the premise… Buddy ‘Aces’ Israel (played by Jeremy Piven) is a Vegas showman turned gangster who’s got to turn rat or go to jail. When the head honcho of the Mafia finds out he’s turning rat, he puts out a million dollar bounty on Israel that inspires a bunch of hitmen and two hitwomen to get on board.
The problems?
The main problem I had was maintaining my suspension of disbelief… I’m pretty liberal at suspending my disbelief… So much so that when a movie just doesn’t allow me to keep on doing it, something’s definitely wrong.
The first problem I had was with the hitmen and hitwomen… These are supposed to be the best in the business yet only one really shined in that area — TO ME. The others were more like lower-level trash squads that you might hire to do a drive-by for a couple of grand. Unfortunately, the short diversion into the world of Smokin’ Aces just wasn’t enough for me to change my mindset about how professional assassins normally look and behave when it comes to the movies… What can I say? I’m old. The Day of the Jackal will do that to you.
The second problem I had was that there was really nobody for me to root for. No real protagonist. They kind of use Ryan Reynolds’ character (Richard Messner) to portray the Protagonist but it’s too little too late. At no time did I care about any of these characters… Not one. To me, this is Screenwriting 101! Maybe a little less action and a little more character development could have gone a long way toward keeping me in the story… Maybe? Fuck yeah.
That’s NOT to say that the acting wasn’t good. It was. In fact, it’s the actors that totally make SMOKIN’ ACES. If it wasn’t for the acting, I would have had a much harder time sitting through it. As it was, I was ready and waiting to jump out of my theater seat by the time the film was over and I’m one of those audience members that watches the entire rolling of credits. Everybody does an outstanding job with what they’ve got to work with… My major complaint however, is that I just didn’t feel that this film was a film for grownups. LOL. Here you’ve got an R rated flick but with the feel of KID all over it i.e., who the hell was it made for? Interesting since over at Joe’s blog he says that supposedly lots of kids who purchased tickets to EPIC, turned right around and snuck in to SA.
I ain’t buyin’ it… That definitely didn’t happen where I saw the film.
All I can say is that this script GOES BACK to an earlier post, It’s in the stars… The script’s dialogue was enough to get some pretty oustanding talent on board but it also goes to show you that you still need a solid structure along with some great characters to keep people in the seats.
Should you see it? Sure, why not? There’s definitely SHITTIER movies out there but if you’re a screenwriter and can’t help watching a movie from THAT perspective, don’t be surprised if what happened to ME, happens to YOU. On the other hand, if I was 17, didn’t know a fuckin’ thing about screenwriting, it probably would have been an awesome experience. Funny how that works…
Unfortunately, I heard a lot of dissatisfied banter as I stood in line waiting to get out of the theater… A few younger people enjoyed it but a lot of the older audiences just weren’t buying it. We shall see if the magic ticket-buying demographic can save it… I heard it only cost about $25 Mil to make so it only needs about three more half-way decent weekends of box office… LOL.
We shall see but please Joe… Next time, MAKE IT SPECIAL!
Unk
Tags: Joe Carnahan Smokin’ Aces Jeremy Piven Smokin’ Aces screenplay
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29 Responses to “Let Tarantino do Tarantino… Please!”
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UNK-
I’m glad you’re back and ALIVE! You’re right…Carnahan ‘can’ write and did let us all down; maybe, he wasn’t “smokin aces,” but dope.
Love,
Your Commander in Heat
Bloods, Guts was my pick for worst film of they year, and it is still in my Top 5… way too much exposition in the dialogue, endless droning talking heads characters saying absolutely nothing about plot, I could go on but I won’t, cause I know you like the film and I’d hate to bruise your opinion of me (wink)
MovieQuill,
Not at all… Films like BGB&O aren’t for everyone and I am the first to acknowledge that. For some reason, it just worked for me… Also, I know some of the people that worked on the film with Joe… I’m from the same area so of course there’s that HOMETOWN BOY MAKES GOOD thing goin’ on…
When you consider how BGB&O was made… On weekends, on 16mm, all amateurs, etc. etc. etc., it was pretty impressive from THAT standpoint if nothing else.
But THAT was THEN — THIS is NOW.
SA has the same feel to it so you probably wouldn’t like it if you didn’t like BGB&O. Hell, I didn’t like it that much and I liked BGB&O!
My problem is GROWTH. I just expected MORE than an expanded version of BGB&O… Especially since NARC was a pretty decent film.
So I admit my liking of BGB&O is a lot because of it being an underdog film… Totally Indie. Totally done with what Joe could get his hands on…
There’s a LOT to that story that I can’t elaborate on here or I’m gonna get sued… LOL.
Suffice to say that I was just expecting GROWTH.
Didn’t get it.
Unk
Unk,
Interesting comment about the assassins- haven’t seen the film (will read the script today), but the suped-up crime genre always kinda catches my attention. I really enjoy the stuff, but it can be a tough nut- balancing action and excitement with good, solid character is rarer than it should be. With Tarentino I always get that he’s turning every element of a story up to 11, action, characters, style– but the imitators fail to get all their parts up to that level so it never quite measures up.
I wonder if the fact there are so many hitman in ACES that it diffuses some of the characterization? The hitmen aren’t special cause, jesus, everyone’s a hitman. Complete opposite of JACKAL- DotJ is such a narrow-focus on a single character with such purpose, but if you’re shotgunning a whole bunch of guys, squads with the same goal… I mean, how much time can you spend on each? And where can you go with that type of character? How do you make them special and is there new ground to cover? It seems like a pretty slim area between emotionally dead or coming unglued because of troublesome emotion. I don’t know any real hitman, but damn there are a lot of movies about them- cause I guess people wonder how someone could do that job. So yeah, it would be worth the time and effort if you make it special and anyone thinking about writing something like that should keep it in mind.
unk,
i’ve only been reading yer blog for about a month but i’ve been reading about smokin aces on carnahan’s blog for months.
no, i didn’t sneak in but i watched sa on fri. then again on sat. that’s twicee. it was just 2 comicbook for me personally and yer right, i am trying to become a screenwriter ever since reading yer blog. i walked away liking the movie but now after reading yer post, i’m wondering why i liked it. there really isn’t that much to like unless you like a lot of action.
oh well. food for thought i guess.
ronny
Well, Joe wrote the script well before he made NARC, so that may account for the BLOOD GUTS feel. I don’t think it’s meant for deep contemplation. Keep your eyes open for PRIDE AND GLORY which Joe wrote as well, if it hasn’t been completely twisted, I think you’ll like that one better.
$25 Mill? I thought it was an indie movie.
I’ll actually rent it anyways because I like the genre and concept. I am not writing Joe off heh
Chesher - Independent doesn’t mean dirt poor. A lot of people confuse the term with “we only have 100k to shoot with.”. Robert Rodriguez’s movies are all independent.
Unk, I didn’t see BLOOD, GUTS, ETC but I enjoyed NARC quite a bit . . . it seems like tthough, just from the trailer, he’d also gotten away from his visual style, which felt real and gritty, - the trailer makes the movie look like a Bruckheimer project . . . too slick for words . . .
but I sort of felt the same just from the previews, that there were no characters. People forget that the trailer for PULP FICTION had little action and all talk . . . the big mac discussion, the “wander the earth like Kane from kung fu” line and Travolta doing the twist. That’s QT’s movies, he loves listening to characters.
QT’s films are filled with talk, illuminating character discussions, yet it’s hard these days to see a movie with a scene that goes on longer than a page . . . so it part I think it’s also the marketplace dictating movies like this. They figure, they’re lesbians, they’re assassins, we have one or two cool pieces of dialogue and get to the bloody stuff.
When really, it’s more interesting to find out who they really are and why they are, you know?
Maybe it’s just me.
By the “movie”, I meant Smokin’ Aces. It looks too slick, like CSI.
Film Diva…
Uh… I’m pretty sure I didn’t go in thinking this film was made for DEEP CONTEMPLATION. LOL. On the other hand, Joe Carnahan pretty much says exactly that if you read any of his interviews about Smokin’ Aces. He comes right out and says that you’re gonna have to go back and watch the thing 3 or 4 times TO GET EVERYTHING OUT OF IT. Maybe that’s exactly what my problem was… I wasn’t expecting a film for deep contemplation but Joe says that’s exactly what the film should cause…
Uh… Let’s see. Would that be a marketing ploy or is it real? Is he really suggesting that we go watch SA 3 or 4 times? Is he really suggesting that THIS FILM… Above ALL OTHERS, JUSTIFIES a total outlay of $21 to $40 just so we can GET IT?
Chesh…
This AIN’T no Indie film. The dialogue in the script attracted the talent. Obviously, the TALENT was more interested in looking good on the screen than the movie being good overall… Such is life. From what I understand, the TALENT pretty much didn’t even get paid. It’s all on the screen Baby…
MovieQuill…
You’ll RENT it? Come on… Don’t they have matinees in Oklahoma? LOL. I hear ya… Supposedly, Carnahan is releasing a DIRECTOR’S CUT DVD with a lot of footage that didn’t make it to the screen.
Oh joy.
Josh,
I loved Narc. I even went to the WORLD PREMIERE of Narc at the Crest Theater in Sacratomato, CA… I bought the DVD and I still like it today. Good flick. Which is why I was anticipating SA. Narc had a Kinetic, visceral FEEL to it. Like I was spying on the characters…
That doesn’t happen in SA.
All I’m sayin’ is that I was expecting more… It’s ALL MY FAULT.
Unk
Oh Unk, don’t blame the victim!
Unknown Screenwriter,
You SUCK! I seen SNOKIN’ ACES 3s times now and it jest kee[s getting better!
Fuck you! Joe’s the MAN.
Tabre
Tabre,
Dude. You got me. You’ve SAID it ALL, Baby.
Unk
Don’t worry Unk, Tabre will forget what he wrote in about three seconds, and tomorrow he won’t even remember seeing SNOKIN’ ACES . . .
of course he liked it, anything without a pesky story or character development, just lots of fun gunplay . . .
Movies for those with Special Needs . . .
Josh,
I will fight to the DEATH for Tabre to say what he (or she?) wants to say. This is America, right?
Or is it just the Internet?
I forget.
Tabre,
I think you need to see Smokin’ Aces AGAIN and AGAIN. Joe needs you…
Unk
Your peepin out you’re ass unk. Just watching the Tremers alone was worth the price of d’mission.
And Alicia oh some preshus stuff to to look at. She stole my heart in this flix.
Write somthing better.
snikaas
Snikaas,
I apologize for PEEPIN out my ass. LOL. Please forgive me.
Or not.
I think all the fanfare SPEAKS for itself. I just want to know where the fuck you’re all coming from… LOL.
Hopefully, the third will be a grownup.
Or not.
Unk
Unk,
I’m a grownup.
Since you can’t say it, I will say it for you. It’s nice that Joe’s finally made it. We are all happy for him back here in Sacramento. Even those (as you know) that he fucked over.
And before anyone starts reciting the ’sour grapes’ line, let me just say that Smokin’ Joe left a lot of Carnahan-age in his wake after BGB&O.
He was the ultimate used car salesman that he played in the movie. That is, he massaged all our egos and promised — and kept promising that if BGB&O made it, the rest of us would make it too.
Now I’m not talking about screenplays getting sold or any of us getting a shot at directing a film. Nothing like that. I’m simply talking about paying on the promises he made. Stuff like working on part of a crew. Helping a few of us get other gigs.
No. He flew out of here like a bat out of hell.
I was invited to the premiere of Smokin’ Aces here in Sac and okay, I went. I couldn’t help it. The way he looks at you and exudes even the slightest possibility that he remembers you and ‘might’ end up throwing you a bone makes it hard not to turn him down. As in one of your posts on character, he has charisma!
But now he’s gone. The DP of BGB&O had to sell ALL his camera gear on eBay. We’re all back to working regular jobs because there just isn’t enough filmmaking in the area to get involved in. We had ‘hoped’ for a SHORT FUSE PRODUCTIONS production company where we would all have a home and just keep on making movies but it didn’t happen and it looks like it ain’t ever going to happen.
It’s all cool. Just goes to show you that he had a vision and he was able to sell us his vision like an igloo to Eskimos.
At least YOU got me writing again. For that I thank you.
Sheesh
Unk,
Sorry about the Carnahan bashing. I just reread it. I guess I do have a bit of the sour grapes thing going on.
As for the actual movie, I watched Smokin’ Aces and quite frankly was surprised. Yes, very much BLOOD, GUTS, BULLETS & OCTANE on steroids but not nearly as impressive.
He’s definitely digressed and seems to have forgotten how to make us empathize with his characters. Either that or he just doesn’t give a damn. Me thinks the latter is the correct answer.
I’m just glad I saw it for free.
Thanks Joe!
Sheesh
Ouch.
Are we done?
Unk
I did a post on it over chez moi. Styleposterous.
BUT…I will add this…the first thing they always ask you at USC is:
WHOSE STORY IS IT????
Jeremy Piven? He’s got about three scenes…Ryan Reynolds…by the end, maybe…one of the hitmen’s or women’s…WHICH ONE?
Who am I rooting for?
WHAT am I rooting for?
LOL. I think Joe gets over-excited (like a lot of filmmakers of these types of films) and wants to “bury” details. It’s the USUAL SUSPECTS-syndrome — all these bright filmmakers want to create a movie that reveals more to the viewer upon repeat viewings. It’s important to note that 98% of audiences want a forward story that works well, and only about 15% give a hoot about that second-viewing. I’m more of a WYSIWYG. It is a good strategy to create rabid fans, however.
It takes a lot of “vision” and backbone to resist when Hollywood comes knocking with private jets, Malibu homes and all the related perks. It’s rare to find someone who wouldn’t throw their own mother under the bus to succeed, and even rarer to find someone with integrity who is also a success. What’s that old saw? “It’s called showBUSINESS not showFRIENDSHIP.” :-)
“It’s rare to find someone who wouldn’t throw their own mother under the bus to succeed, and even rarer to find someone with integrity who is also a success.”
You bet your ass it’s rare…
Unk
Yeah…really disappointed here. SO looking forward to this movie…and the words that came to mind immediately after were “train wreck.” Too many characters, not a focused story, the world’s slowest elevator of all time, and so much blatant laying of pipe I was waiting for Mario and Luigi to march on-screen. I think someone up above wrote that JC wrote this pre-Narc, and that’s what it feels like…someone post-BBGO trying to chase the market at that time, and nail down the next sale before he loses heat. (Not that I blame him for that.) But one wishes he had the maturity to either re-tool this film or just walk away and find something more suitable.
While initially I was psyched to see his version of MI3, if this is how he handles major action sequences and ensemble casts, perhaps it was a good parting of the ways. Hopefully Bunny Lake and White Jazz are better fits for his wheelhouse (and I think they will be).
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Now, isn’t Snakes on a Plane the worst movie of the year? Come on! It is a reoccuring joke gone bad. Well, I haven’t seen many non-quick, AKA guy-films since i stopped dating my halo jump master GI Joe boyfriend. Maybe I just don’t know what it takes to make a bad movie anymore.
Heather,
Haven’t seen SOAP but from what I understand… Yeah, there were WORSE movies in 2006:
BLOODRAYNE
BASIC INSTINCT 2
POSEIDON
I could go on and on actually but I’ll stop. LOL.
Unk